#86 PET TALK TODAY with Will Bangura. Dog Training and Behavior Q & A

PET TALK TODAY #86 Dog Training with Will Bangura. This Week we Take Calls and Answer Questions. How to help abused, fearful dogs, barking, separation anxiety, the problem with dog parks and doggie daycare and more.  Dog Training, Dog Trainer, Dog Behaviorist, Certified Dog Behavior Consultant, Cat Trainer, Cat Training, Pet Trainer, Pet Training, Will Bangura.

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Raised by wolves with canine DNA in his blood. Having trained more than 24,000 pets helping you and your fur babies thrive. Live in studio. It's Pet Talk today with Will Bangura answering your pet behavior and training questions. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome your host and favorite pet behavior expert, will Manura .

Speaker 2 0:36

Good Saturday morning everybody. Hey, thanks for joining me. I'm Will Bandura and you are watching and listening to PET Talk today here on Facebook Live, where I am here each and every Saturday morning helping you with your dog training and dog behavior issues. Hey, if you're brand new to Pet Talk today, let me talk a little bit about how this works , um, in a little bit, I'm going to be answering your questions and what I need you to do, if you've got a question about your dog's behavior, if you would like help with your dog's training or behavior problems, do me a favor, go ahead and put your question, type your question in the comments section, and also do me a favor. Let me know where you're watching from and also what kind of pets that you have. And if you're a regular viewer, a regular watcher, regular listener of Pet Talk today, thank you so much for your continued support. Do me a favor, everybody, go ahead, hit that like button. Smash that light button for me. Um, hit that heart button, show me some love. And then also if you would please hit that share button, share this video with people on your page so that more people can benefit from what we do here at Pep Talk today. This is your show, everybody. This is your show and it's only as good as the questions you give. It's only as good as the input , uh, that you provide as well. Hey, we had a great honor. They did some kind of a , uh, they, they were looking at dog training podcast and they were ranking, which are the best dog training podcasts that are out there. And they took a look at, I guess, thousands of different podcasts that are out there. And we ranked number five now . I think we should be number one, but we ranked number five. So I am so honored to have that ranking. I really, really appreciate that. And that's because of you and folks, for more people to be able to benefit , uh, from this podcast, a lot of it depends upon Apple Podcasts, unfortunately. Um, they're the ones that most people are listening to on Apple Podcast rankings on Apple podcasts are all determined by reviews. So if you can, if you can show me some love, go to Apple Podcast , uh, give a five star review for pet talk today, I would appreciate that. Um, and a little bit, like I said, I'm gonna be going and answering your questions, so grab a cup of coffee, bring the pups up to the screen so that they can get the help as well. But first I wanna talk about Stephanie Cohen. Um , next week, make sure that you are here watching the show. I'm gonna be interviewing Stephanie Cohen, licensed clinical social worker, and she's written this book right here on Overcoming Your Fear of Dogs. Um, you know , there's a lot , we talk all about dogs and we talk about fears that dogs have, but you know what? There's a lot of people, especially a lot of children that are afraid of dogs. And so we're gonna be interviewing Stephanie and she's gonna tell us about her book . She's gonna tell us , um, about how we can help people overcome their fear of dogs. So, hey, if you know anybody that's afraid of dogs, send them to Pet Talk today. Send 'em to our Facebook page or send 'em to the audio podcast of Pet Talk today. So they won't miss this. And that's gonna be next Saturday. Next Saturday at nine. Okay. Um, I thought also a little bit later today, if there's time, I would talk a little bit about canine socialization. Um, I've got a little bit different take on canine socialization , uh, whether it be for a brand new puppy , um, that you just got, or whether it be for an older dog that you rescued or got from somebody else. Um, so if we have time, I'm gonna talk a little bit , um, about that as well. Um, let's go and see if we have any questions. Hey, also, let me give out the number if you would like to , um, if you would like to call in, I can give you more help cuz I can ask you more questions and then we can get a little more detail as far as how we can help you with, with your pet's problem. That number, if you wanna call, is 4 1 4 4 0 0 3 6 4 7 . Again, that's 4 1 4 4 0 0 3 6 4 7. Let me do this. Let me at least initially turn off the volume on, on the phone. So if it rings, you guys won't hear that. Um, but yes, please. Hey, gimme a call 4 1 4 4 0 0 3 6 4 7. If you're too shy, you can always put your questions , uh, in the comments. Let's see, Janice. Hey Janice. Good morning. Janice is one of our great viewers that's been around forever. Um, I just lost your question, Janice. Let's find it. Um, I know a lot of people say this is Janice's question. I know a lot of people say , uh, that , uh, pit bulls are pretty friendly. I keep losing your question here. Um, where is it? Where'd you go? Oh, no. Oh no. Oh no. Where did it go, Janice? Where's your question? I just had it and I lost so many people are putting questions. It the feed's. Just going too quick. I think , um, I know a lot of people say pit bulls are pretty friendly, but I'm still afraid of those. You know, here's the thing about pit bulls, at least my experience with them. Most of 'em are some of the friendliest dogs with people that you can find. I don't worry about pit bulls and people, I really don't. They're one of the few breeds. I don't worry about pit bulls and people. Now granted, you can always get a dog in any breed that's gonna be afraid of people and be aggressive towards people, but you don't see that a lot in pit bulls. You really don't. The problem is, is that if they're aggressive towards people and if they bite, they usually do a lot of damage because they're bigger breed, they're strong and there's a lot of publicity. You see a lot of things written. You hear a lot of things , um, on the radio. You see a lot of things on the news about pit bulls. But really they're some of the most friendly, it's one of the friendliest breeds when it comes to people. Now some of you pit bull owners, you're gonna be upset with me for saying this, but pit bulls have tough times. They have a tough time with other dogs more so than some other breeds. I'm not saying they're the worst when it comes to having aggression towards other dogs. Um, but they've got, most of 'em have very high prey drive, which means they've got a very low tolerance for frustration and have very poor impulse control. And you get a excitable dog around a dog like that, they can very easily misread what's happening and things can turn into aggression. Um, so when it comes to pit bulls and other dogs, you know, they tend to have some more issues with , uh, other dogs, but not so much , uh, with people, at least in my , uh, experience. Um, so William says we have a senior dog, 11 years old that is going through depression after losing her older brother. Oh, okay. Uh, he was her life. Yeah, that is so, that is so sad. You know, that happens. Our pets get depressed too. And just like people , um, it can be devastating and depending upon how severe that depression is, in some cases you may need to consult with a veterinarian and get some medication for depression. I know that might sound silly, but you know what? The dogs have the same nervous system as we do. And you know what? Brain chemistry is brain chemistry. And it's not always a matter of, hey, put yourself up from your bootstraps. Okay? Chemistry can change , um, and it can be difficult to get them out of it. Now, some depression is just depression situational, but some of it's clinical when , when it comes to dogs is just like with people. So if it's very severe, my suggestion would be, you know, rule out whether or not this is something that medication is warranted. Um, I will tell you though, from a behavioral perspective, one of the best things you can do is start moving with your dog. Fast movement dissipate stress. So more exercise, throwing the ball more. Get your dog involved in moving more walks. Jog with your dog again, throw the ball, play with the rope toy. Uh, get your dog out to a green belt and let them run around. The more exercise you can give your dog, the more that is going to help. Okay . Um, also, you know, not, I'm not a veterinarian. I can't give out , uh, veterinary advice. I'm not a a dietician or a nutritionist, but you can get online and you can do your own searches for supplements that sometimes , uh, can help with that. There's different supplements out there , uh, different , um, herbs that are out there that can be beneficial. Uh, different amino acids, you know, these are infor this is information that I find in the literature that you can find as well. It's in the public domain. Um, but anyway, yeah, that, that's not an easy thing to, to deal with. Um, alright , so Danny, you're from Minnesota. You've got a male pug and a female pug and a female lab. Hey, thanks for sharing that with us. Hey, good morning Michelle. Appreciate that. Dawn , good morning. What's your advice on training abused dogs? Well, that's a pretty general question. Um, dawn , there's a lot of dogs obviously that are rescued, that have been been abused, and they've got a lot of fear issues. Um, some of these dogs that have been abused , um, it's so severe, they've got post-traumatic stress disorder and as a result of being abused , um, they're in a pretty much a chronic state of panic, a chronic distress that's going on and on. Um, and again, some of these very, very severe cases, you may need to consult with your veterinarian, you may need to control, consult with the veterinary behaviorist. The veterinary behaviorist are the specialist when it comes to medical conditions that have a contributing factor to behavior. Um, they've got specialized training, they're a veterinarian, but they've got specialized training , um, in behavior medicine and also in behavior modification. So , um, if there's a medical issue, then I refer you out to the veterinarians. Um, but again, even dawn with your dog too, we know this about fearful dogs. One of the best things we can do is to get them out of their shell is to take them everywhere. Everywhere you go, get them exposed to everything. You know, we have a tendency with these fearful dogs, abused dogs that just kind of isolate them. Now granted, if your dog is falling apart when you're trying to get them out and expose them to things and they're losing it and you know, they're trembling, they're drooling , um, their tail is completely tucked underneath them. Hey, that's pretty severe. You may need to get medication as well. I didn't mean for today's show to be talking about medication, but there are situations where medication , um, is warranted. Let's go and take a look at some other questions. Uh , Janice, you had to take your dog to the vet yesterday. She's got allergy so bad, she had to get an allergy shot , uh, antibiotic shot . She keeps suffering them badly. She was a young pup . Wow. Does your dog have food , uh, insensitivities or are we talking, you know, allergies that are , um, environmental. Okay. Um, let's see. Maryanne , how do I stop my Maryanne ? These questions keep on scrolling and then I lose it . Maryanne , how do I keep my stop my dog from barking at every little noise? Hey folks, do you have a problem with your dog barking too? I just wrote a brand new article on how to stop excessive barking. Go to dog behaviorist.com. I think it , uh, yeah, go to dog behaviorist.com and let me see if I can bring that up on , uh, let me see if I can bring that up here. Um , might be able to do that. Let's see. There we go. How about that guys? Yeah, I got some new graphics here. You like the new graphics that I put up? Um, but yeah, if you'll go to dog behaviorist.com look for and go click on articles. Look for the one on , uh, barking. If you don't see the one on barking, cuz there's a lot more articles than what you're gonna see there. Click on any one of the articles and then you can take a look at , um, archives. Okay, but I wrote a one on barking. But here's the thing, there's lots of reasons why dogs bark the number one reason. Boredom. Boredom. Yep . They're bored. Another reason they bark, they hear something, maybe you don't hear it. Something close to the house. And you know why barking? Excessive barking continues. There's usually always some kind of a reinforcer. Um, you might be telling your dog, oh, be quiet. Oh, it's okay, it's okay. And you're petting your dog and basically you're giving positive reinforcement to your dog. Are any of you doing that? I mean, it's an easy mistake to make. You know, we think we're comforting the dog, but really what we're doing is giving positive reinforcement. Now the other thing, there's a natural reinforcer for all dogs that bark is they're barking at something. Let's take for example, the u p s driver or the Amazon delivery guy, right? They come to the house, your dog starts barking, and guess what happens? They leave. As far as your dog is concerned, their barking was really powerful. They were able to get the scary guy to leave. And when the behavior becomes functional, at least in your dog's mind functional, see, they think that their barking caused the guy to go away. The guy was going away anyway, or the girl was going away anyway, the gal was going away anyway. But as far as the dog's concerned, the barking caused it because they make associations in time. We've got a trigger, they start barking, trigger goes away. Therefore, it must have been the barking that caused the trigger to go away. Hey, when that works for the dog, they're not giving that up anytime soon. They're not giving that up anytime soon. But you know, when it comes to barking, you've got to be there in those situations when your dog is barking. Now, what are the best things we can do? And stop always thinking about what you don't want the dog to do. And start thinking about what you would like the dog to do instead, interrupt the behavior of barking by asking the dog to do something else. And that's something else you're asking your dog to do. When your dog does it, make sure it's worth their while. Make sure they're getting a paycheck. Make sure that you're rewarding them with a high value food reward. Or if they like toys more, give them their favorite toy. It could be as simple as your dog's barking and you call your dog to you. And when your dog comes to you, you've interrupted the behavior of barking and you've rewarded the dog for coming to you. Make sure it's a high value food reward because we're asking your dog to give up something. Your dog's barking for a reason they're motivated to bark. All right ? There's a level of motivation there and the motivation to give that up and to come running to you when you call the dog to you, that motivation that we're trying to utilize better be higher, which means that oftentimes we need very, very high value food rewards. Now listen, when you have these food rewards, please don't have them in your hand. For the most part. Have a treat pouch and don't reach in that treat pouch. Don't take out food until the dog does what you're asking for. Because if food is present while you're asking for the behavior, if food is present before you ask for the behavior, it's a bribe. And bribes aren't rewards, rewards, the dog does the behavior. Then we reach in the treat pouch and we give the food reward. Consider the treat pouch to be a wallet or a purse. Consider the treats to be currency or the paycheck, okay ? We don't wanna be bribing your dogs because they're going to then look for the bribe before they do the behavior. And if the bribe isn't there, they're not gonna do the behavior. But if they're used to you not having food in your hand and they have to do the behavior and then that behavior causes your hand to move towards the treat pouch and give him the food reward, that's a reward. And hey , there's no guarantee. There's no guarantee you're reaching in that treat pouch. The dog can't 100% predict it. So when we need to wean off of food down the road, we can do that. We can do that easily, but you're not gonna do that easily if you've got food in your hand and you're always bribing. So there's a right way and wrong way to use food as well. Um, but yeah, barking, boredom, barking. Uh, there's some kind of a threat that the dog thinks is real. My dogs see barking. My dogs are barking. They think there's some kind of a threat that's real. But you know, I know about this because I've got schnauzers and you know, I've said it before, they, they should have just named the schnauzer breed bark because that's what they do. They bark and bark and bark. They're one of the breeds that barks the most. They're great guard dogs, not protection dogs. Protection dogs will bite guard dogs. They're going to alert their great guard dogs . Schnauzers are , but they're always barking. And so that's the the strategy that I use. They bark. Um, and I know it's gonna be excessive. And I'll call them to me and I'll give them a very, very high value food reward. Okay? And they then, as I am consistent with that, and that's the key. You've gotta be consistent with the barking or any behavior that you're trying to change and modify. If you're using what we call differential reinforcement, teaching the dog a different behavior that if they're doing that different behavior would be incompatible with the behavior that you don't want. So for example, if you don't want your dog barking and you call your dog to you, well, most dogs are gonna give up the barking as they're running to you. That's an incompatible behavior. Highly reward the dog , reward the dog with a very high value food reward so that they wanna do it. And if you're consistently doing that over and over and over, really consistent, and that's the key, what's gonna happen is you're gonna have a dog that might bark once or twice and come running to you. You're not gonna have the excessive barking, but you gotta be really consistent and, and that'll happen for you, you. So , um, anybody with a barking issue, give that a try. Also go to dog behaviorist.com, go to the article section and uh, you'll see that there's an article , um, on barking. Um, let's see, real adverse . So your dog, William, going back to your dog that's depressed. William, you know, you said that she's really adverse to being home alone. Uh, we see her pacing, we hear her howling and crying constantly. Uh, leaving her with clothes we just wore doesn't help. Radio doesn't work either. Any suggestions? Yeah, that's severe. That is severe anxiety. Um, William, please consult with your veterinarian. Um, if you've got a veterinary behaviorist where you live , um, in the town that you live, which doesn't look like you told me , um, check out a veterinarian behaviorist. A veterinary behaviorist. I'm sorry, Rachel's watching from Arizona. She owns a jack , be Jack Russell Beagle mix . Jack a bee , huh? I had a Jack Russell terrorist . They're great dogs, but boy, they can, they can be a handful. Um, all right , let's see here. Russ. Hello from Jackson County, West Virginia. Doing pretty good now with my great PIs , Barney's, two years old. Uh, people that meet him at Tractor Supply Lowe's. Love him. Fantastic. All right , let's see. Rachel. Rachel says, my dog is almost three. He was traumatized at a doggy daycare. He is now fear aggressive towards people and other , uh, it says other gigs. I'm not sure what that meant. Um, so Rachel, let's talk about your dog and let's talk about your dog being traumatized at doggie daycare, because this fits into one of the topics that I wanted to discuss, and that is socialization. Um, and, and I'm gonna try to fit both of these in. And when I'm talking about socialization, I'm talking about exposure. Okay? Being in close proximity to people, places, things, sounds, sights, other dogs. I already said people, children, tall people, short people , um, different people of different races, okay? The more your dogs are exposed to everything and anything, the less things are going to be fearful, okay? And we need to start that process of exposure. See, I don't call it socialization, I call it exposure. We need to start that process of exposure as early as possible. Um, the American Society of Veterinary behaviorists have put out a position statement that said, Hey, it's more important to get your dogs out there exposed to everything than to complete your vaccinations. That your dog has a greater chance , um, of dying from behavioral euthanasia by not having exposure and socialization than from parvo or distemper. Now, those aren't their words, okay? And again, I'm not a veterinarian, I'm not giving out medical advice. But basically what they're saying is, is that the biggest problem that we have, and I don't know if you folks are aware of this, do you know what the number one cause of death is for dogs under the age of three? Think about it. The number one cause of death for dogs under the age of three is behavioral euthanasia. What does that mean? What is behavioral euthanasia? It means that the dogs have a behavior problem. And for whatever reason, that dog keeps getting sent back to the shelter. Maybe it's been adopted three or four times, nobody's been able to deal with the behavior and the dog gets euthanized. And when we deal with these type of problems, these behavior problems, most of them are rooted in not being socialized or what I call exposure. See, when it comes to this doggy daycare situation, you mentioned your dog was traumatized at doggy daycare. That happens a lot. Hear me again? A lot of dogs are being traumatized at doggy daycare. And for that matter, a lot of dogs are being traumatized at dog parks. Now, hey, I get it. There's a lot of dogs that go to dog parks and everything's fine. And there's a lot of dogs that go to doggy daycare and everything's fine. But it's kind of a roulette wheel, okay? You spin that wheel, you don't know when your number's coming up. You hang around a dog park long enough for a long enough period of time, you hang around dog parks for enough frequency, keep going there, go, go, go, go, go. You go off and enough, stay long enough. It's not usually gonna be a matter of when your dog is gonna be in an altercation. It's usually a matter of when, not if. And I see it and I hear it all the time . People have problems with their dogs. They're fearful, they're aggressive, and again, they think, oh, I need to socialize my dog. So they take their fearful aggressive dog, their scared dog, okay, their dog that's not stable, and they put 'em in a dog park. And you, you just wanna bring your happy-go-lucky dog there and run around, throw the ball, and have your dog run around with other happy-go-lucky dogs. And for the most part, that works. Except there's three or four dogs that are there that shouldn't be there. And there's nobody to monitor it and say, Hey, you know what? Maybe it's not a good idea for your dog to be in the dog park right now. We'd love it to come back when it's better, but not right now because it's putting all the other dogs at risk that are stable. The same thing happens in doggy daycare. I don't care if they've got staff there that say they can assess the dogs. When you take a dog, especially a dog that's got anxiety and fear, which is the underlying root cause of almost all aggression, okay? You take a dog like that and you put them in a brand new location that they've never been to, and you've got 5, 10, 15, 20, 30 dogs maybe more, and all kinds of new people, new scent , new building, and all the barking, barking, barking. It's scary for the dog. Very scary. And they will suppress their behavior initially for the first few weeks. You don't know what the dog necessarily is going to do in a stressful situation in doggy daycare. But after they've been there a few weeks, then we start seeing what's gonna happen with a lot of these unstable dogs in doggy daycare. So, you know, to say that you're going to know what's gonna happen with a dog, that you can appropriately assess a dog , uh, before they get to doggy daycare, highly unlikely you're gonna get more information by taking a really good behavior history than just trying to look at this dog in that environment, because you're not gonna get the right kind of read. Now, dog parks, doggie daycare, very, very well intended ideas. They got good intentions, but they , it's a disaster ready to happen for a lot of dogs. Now, again, I know a lot of dogs can go to doggy daycare. A lot of dogs end up going to dog parks and everything's just fine. But talk to the people like Don , I believe it is, whose dog got traumatized at doggy daycare. You know, it's all fun until it's your dog that it happens to. So my take on socialization is this, I could care less if my dogs ever played with another dog other than my own dogs and a few friends and family members that have dogs that I know they're temperament really, really well. And I know there's not gonna be any issues when my dogs are with them. They can play with them. But I don't want my dog playing with the vast majority of dogs that are out there, especially a dog that I don't know intimately. If I don't know the details of that dog, if I don't know it's behavioral history, there's no way my dog is gonna connect with that dog. They're not all safe. And you know what? Not all dogs like dogs, a lot of 'em, they don't wanna be with them. They wanna be with you. They're people. And I gotta tell you, any of you here, do me a favor. If any of you watching, if any of you listening, have a dog that actually came up to you and whispered into your ear or yelled in your ear for that matter, Hey, take me to doggy daycare. If your dog did that, if your dog came up to you and and begged to go to doggy daycare, if your dog came up to you and begged to go to the dog park, let me know. And I'm not talking about dogs that get excited when you get 'em in the car. Your dog's not asking to go to doggy daycare. Your dog's not asking to go to the dog park. That's your decision. And a lot of times it's our emotional , um, choices. Okay? We something crazy about here in the United States that we feel that our dogs need to interact and play with all dogs. There's something crazy here in the United States amongst dog people that we think our dogs should interact with. All people. You know, there are so many people that wanna come up and meet your dogs that are afraid and you tell 'em, no, my dog's afraid, or my dog's reactive. And they're like, oh, it's okay. They think they have a special relationship with dogs and they keep going towards your dog. They keep reaching out and then your dog gets reactive, then now you gotta correct your dog. They got your dog in trouble. Why don't they just leave your dog alone? And why don't you leave other dogs alone? Okay ? Why do you feel like your dog's gotta meet every dog? Why? Why? Hey, I think it's wonderful when I see dogs running around having a blast. I'm not denying that, but I'm trying to keep a lot of dogs safe. And you know what? Doggy daycare and dog parks, they keep me in business. I get most of my business from dogs that went to doggy daycare in dog parks that have been in fights cuz they deal with a lot of dogs of fierce phobias, aggression and anxiety. Hey, I'm Will Bangura and you're watching Pet Talk today here on Facebook Live. Maybe you're listening to the Pet Talk Today podcast on Apple Podcast, Google Podcast, Spotify or iTunes, any of the podcast hosting networks. I'm here each and every Saturday to answer your dog behavior and training questions. If you're brand new to Pet Talk today, the way it works, we have you go ahead and type your question in the comment section. Also let us know where you're watching from and what kind of pets that you have. Um, also if you'd like to call in, let me give you that number. It's 4 1 4 4 0 0 3 6 4 7 4 1 4 4 0 0 3 6 4 7. If you'd like to talk to me about your dog's training and behavior. If you need professional help and sometimes there are situations, you know, like aggression, fears, phobias, anxiety that are severe, you need professional help. You could go to my website@dogbehaviorist.com. I do , uh, behavior consultations all throughout the world and help people with these issues. That's dog behaviorist.com. But let's go back to the questions cuz that's what we're here for. Uh, let's see. Uh, Mike, Mike says, good morning. My 15 month old Havanese now barks nonstop at any animal on tv. Uh, she used to sit there watching animals quietly. Uh, so let's talk about that. This is a good one because a lot of you, you're not alone. There are a lot of you that have dogs that bark at things on tv. In some cases it might be other animals. In some cases it's just something else. They see something on the TV and they become reactive. What do you do? What do you do about that? Well, I'm gonna talk briefly about counter conditioning and desensitization, which is really just fancy words of taking that something that the dog views as negative. In this case, the dog's not liking what it's seeing or hearing on tv. That's the negative trigger for the dog. Um, and what we wanna do, counter conditioning is pairing something very, very positive with the trigger that the dog doesn't like. Over and over and over, changing the emotional association, getting the dog to like the trigger. Because the trigger means, hey, for example, I'm getting very high value food rewards when I see or hear the trigger. However, however, that work of counter conditioning and desensitization has to be done by exposing the dog. But at a level where the dog's not highly anxious, where the dog is not fearful, where the dog is not reactive. If the dog is barking and reacting to the tv and we're trying to do counter conditioning and desensitization, the dog is what we call over threshold, that it's way too much, way too much for the dog. We have to expose it in little bite size pieces. We have to expose things to dogs in ways that they can handle it. Okay? If, if they're reacting. It's what , it's a principle in, in psychology that we call flooding. And that just makes the fears and the anxieties worse, usually. Okay? Now how can we cuz encounter conditioning and desensitization? Let's say for example, if I'm doing this and a dog is afraid of another dog, the way I would start exposing the dog that's afraid of other dogs is I would have those other dogs. I would have the trigger dog far enough away from the dog with fears that the dog with fear could see the other dog. Okay? But really doesn't care about the other dog. Doesn't have a lot of fear. Anxiety has very little fear and anxiety cuz the dog's far enough away. But how do we do that with your television? Because can we get far enough away from the tv? And then what do we do about the sounds? So there's a lot of different things, okay? We might not be able to get far enough away from the TV for the dog not to be reactive. But guess what we can do? We can turn down the brightness of the tv, which makes it less intense for the dog. We can turn down the volume of the tv, which makes it less intense for the dog. So let's say that I am streaming Beverly Hills Chihuahua and my dog is going crazy at the television. If I wanna help my dog be exposed to those things and not be crazy about what's going on on television, one of the first things I'm gonna do is I am gonna get some the highest value food rewards I possibly can. I like using a squeeze bottle where I make a paste of some kind of meat. You know, I puree it in, in , uh, in a blender, maybe put a little bit of water in there. But I make a paste. I put it in a squeeze bottle. And what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna turn on the TV, or I'm gonna turn on the streaming of Beverly Hills Chihuahua. I'm gonna pop a dvd . And if you, if anybody still has a DVD player , um, and I'm gonna press play. And as soon as it starts to play and the dog notices it, I'm gonna feed, feed, feed, feed, feed constantly and continuously for about one to three seconds. And then I'm gonna press stop. And then I'm gonna press play. The dog's gonna see what's happening on tv and I'm gonna feed, feed, feed, feed, feed constantly and continuously for one to three seconds while the TV is on and the dog views it, and then I'm gonna turn it off. And as soon as I turn it off, feeding stops. So the food, the high value food reward, what the dog likes is being paired with what the dog doesn't like. However, I have turned the brightness way down on the TV and I have turned the volume way down on the TV to begin with exposing my dog to that trigger, that it's reactive to. Now I need to do these counter conditioning and desensitization exercises at least three to five times a week. The sessions are short. Those of you that have been listening and have been watching for a while, you know, these sessions are five minutes, 10 minutes, man, 15 minutes would be incredibly long. It'd be forever. I , I don't know that I ever do a 15 minute session. But you need to do these very frequently and you need to have very high value food awards, and you need to be able to control the trigger. If your TV's on all the time and your dog is barking and reactive to it, you have to then, unless you're doing counter conditioning and desensitization with the dog, your dog cannot be exposed to the trigger. Because if that trigger keeps getting your dog to rehearse that behavior, it just keeps getting more and more conditioned. So the number one rule, when we got these type of issues, we need to avoid the triggers. Now, that's not the fix, avoiding the triggers, but it's the first step to the fix. Because if we don't avoid them, unless we're doing the work of counter conditioning and desensitization, unless we're doing the exposure therapy work, which we are controlling, which we are manipulating, which we can bring down the intensity to start with, and little by little we can turn up the brightness of the tv. As the dog gets comfortable, little by little we can bring up the volume of the TV as the dog gets comfortable. It's a slow and gradual process, okay? It's system gradual, systematic desensitization. You can only go as fast as the dog's pace. As you begin to increase volume, as you begin to increase brightness. If at any point in time in the process your dog starts getting upset, reactive, you have gone too far, too quick, too soon, bring the volume back down, bring the brightness back down, rebuild your dog. You need to kind of be at one level for, I'm just throwing this out there, let's say two weeks before you even think about going to another level. Again, slow, gradual progress is what we're looking for. There are no quick fixes. There are no quick fixes. You're looking for a quick fix and you find it. I'll bet you it doesn't last very long. That's been my experience. But, but that's one way that you start to deal with that problem. Um, if you wanna get more detailed information about counter conditioning and desensitization, I've written an article on that, go to dog behaviorist.com, go to articles, click on the articles, start looking through the articles. Again, if you don't see the one on counter conditioning and desensitization, click on any of the articles so that you can get to the archives and you can find it there. Um, also, I've got an hour and 35 minute audio podcast on counter conditioning and desensitization. But you've gotta go to the podcast, not the Facebook page. You've gotta go to the Pet Talk Today podcast. Look for episode 81. Episode 81 is all about counter conditioning and desensitization. You can find the audio podcast on any hosting platform, Google Podcast, apple Podcast, Spotify, Stitcher , um, iTunes, buzz Sprout. I don't know which one, where you get your podcast from, but do that. Go and listen to the entire hour and 35 minutes of episode 81 on counter conditioning and desensitization, because listen, that's the gold standard standard. That's how you deal with any fear, any phobia, any anxiety, any reactivity, any aggression. The treatment is counter conditioning and desensitization. You have to know that well. So go to the podcast, episode 81 and learn that, study that. Go to my website, dog behaviorist.com, find the article on counter conditioning and desensitization, study that. And if you've got a really difficult situation, hire a professional to help you. Whether that's me or whether that's somebody else doesn't matter. But you might need some professional help. Um, thank you Kat , I appreciate your comments. Um, Mike, let's see. Oh, you found someone else that's gotta have an as puppy, didn't you ? Um, okay, good morning. Love your educational program, listening from Arizona. Hey, thanks Roxy, appreciate that. Um, let's see. Okay, looking at the questions. Good morning from Indiana. Hey Sharon, how are you Sally ? Let's see, from Pawpaw Michigan. Are you serious, Sally? It's actually called Paw Paw Michigan. You need to let me know if I , I'm gonna have to Google that. If there's a paw paw Michigan, that's a place to have your dogs. I'll tell you . Paw paw , huh? You've got a springer spaniel with separation anxiety. Any natural calming products you recommend? Well, I'm not a dietician , I'm not a nutritionist, and I'm not a veterinarian and I can't give out medical advice. Um, I can tell you that , um, I've developed a supplement, but right now , um, unless your dog is like 30 or 40 pounds or less , um, I've only got the small breed formula. I don't have large breed formula right now in stock. Uh, calm dogs, calm dogs.com or dog anxiety.com . I , I've got my own supplement for anxiety, but right now, the only thing I have in stock are the small breed formulas for dogs that are 30, 40 pounds or less. We'll have the large breed formula , um, soon. But, you know, there's all kinds of , uh, supply chain issues and all things like that. Um, I'll tell you what doesn't work, and that's C , b , D , um, and there's a lot of stuff on the market that doesn't work , um, when it's severe. Even my supplement, which is highly researched and it's, you know, I mean, I'm biased. I'm gonna say it's one of the best out there, but I really believe that because there's a lot of science , uh, behind that supplement. And the reason I developed calm dogs was because the stuff that's out there really doesn't work well. And not every dog needs medication. But I will tell you, I don't care what the supplement is, even if it's mine. Calm dogs , um, when it's severe supplements aren't gonna help. All right ? You need medication, behavior modification, counter conditioning, desensitization. Um , you can wean off medications, but sometimes you have to have, because here's the thing, if you've got a dog so distressed, they're in fight or flight, they're in a whole different part of the brain. They're in the agia , they're instinctively in that fight or flight, and they have very limited ability to access the frontal cortex, the thinking part of the brain, the brain that is responsible for exec executive decision making . Okay? And when that happens and you can't access that part of the brain, learning isn't happening. You can't teach in that state. You cannot teach in that state. They're not gonna learn and they're not gonna remember in that state. And that's why sometimes medication is necessary because we can't always do the work of behavior modification if we can't bring down the level of that dog's panic or fight and flight. All right , let's go back to the questions. Oh, ba let me talk a little bit. I wanna go into the separation anxiety. Okay? So separation anxiety is a little bit different. You know , there's a lot of stuff out there and separation anxiety that says, Hey, go out for three seconds. Come back in, give your dog a treat, go out for five seconds, come back in, give your dog a treat, go out for 10 seconds, come back in, give a treat. We have learned now something new. We don't give food rewards for separation anxiety because when we walk in and give that food reward, it gets the dog more excited. And one of the biggest problems with separation anxiety, we need to keep them calm. We don't wanna do anything that gets them excited even slightly. Okay ? So here's the thing about separation anxiety. Yes, you do need to do gradual and systematic desensitization. We typically, at least me these days, I don't do counter conditioning. I don't give food for that. This , it's a little bit different. Now, you've gotta be the most boring person in the world when you leave. And when you come back, I mean, boring, boring. We don't want your dog getting excited. That's, that's a part of the problem. But you are gonna leave for a very short duration, one to three seconds, you're gonna come back. But when you leave, you're boring as heck. When you come back, you're boring as heck. Then you're gonna go back out and leave again. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 seconds, very short duration. And you're gonna come right back in. And again, incredibly boring, leaving, incredibly boring coming back. Your dog needs to see the fact that you're leaving and that you're coming back and that this is boring. And you're gonna do a lot of these very short durations out and in, out and in, out and in so short duration that it doesn't upset your dog. Get your dog really, really used to that. Okay? Gotta be boring. Lots of repetition. Then you start adding a little more time to your, your absence. Okay? Not a lot, a little bit. You do the same thing, you leave a little bit longer, you come back really boring, leave a little bit longer, come back really boring. And when that is really boring for your dog and you do that all day long and your dog could care less, you add a little more duration, you get the idea. We add a little more duration, add a little more duration, add a little more duration, add a little more duration very gradually and systematically to desensitize the dog. However, we need to do something else. Dogs are masters at figuring out patterns. Dogs are masters at figuring out black and white cause and effect associations and the pattern and the association that's being created as we leave and come back and leave a little longer and come back and leave a little longer and come back and leave a little longer and come back and leave a little longer and come back. The dogs , some of them start to figure out, oh crap, at some point they start figuring out they keep going away longer and longer. Oh my God, oh my god. It keeps getting longer. It , it's getting really get longer because it keeps getting longer. And they figured that out, not cuz they're brilliant because they're great at figuring out patterns. So what we need to do to be successful when we're doing this with separation anxiety is we've gotta kind of mess up the pattern a little bit as we're adding more and more absence, more duration of absence at some point as we start extending the time and we keep on extending the time, we've got to kind of toggle, I call it toggling. I got that from , uh, Meena d martini . She used the term toggling. We gotta toggle back and forth with short duration in the longer duration. So let's say for example, I leave for a minute. I've, I've built up to a minute. I come back, I leave for 10 seconds, I come back, I leave for 30 seconds, I come back, I leave for 40 seconds, I come back, I leave for a minute, I come back, I leave for 15 seconds, I come back, I leave for five seconds, I come back, I leave for 45 seconds, I come back, I leave for 20 seconds, I come back, I leave for a minute and a half, I come back, I leave for a minute and I come back, I leave for four seconds, I come back. Does that make sense? So we toggle back and forth between short and long duration, but overall over the long haul we're adding more and more and more and more time and duration of our absence. But again, anytime we're doing this with fearful dogs, we can only go at the pace of the dog. Now if you've been doing this for six or eight weeks and you've been doing it right and you're not getting any, any, any success, that's probably a situation where you need medication along with behavior modification. And again, I'm not a veterinarian, so if we're talking about medication, you need to see your veterinarian or you need to consult with a veterinary behaviorist as well. Um, alright , so Dawn is saying how have you handled food aggression at mealtime with multiple dogs eating at one time, besides feeding them , uh, in separate areas? Well, I guess my question is, Dawn , why are you so opposed to feeding them in separate areas? Um, management sometimes is the easiest thing to do. I mean, I've got dogs that are not food aggressive and every time I feed them, I feed them separately. I have done this, gosh, I can't, I think I've done this my whole life with all my dogs. I've always fed them separately as a preventative so that there is not food aggression. Now can you, can you use counter conditioning and desensitization for food aggression? Absolutely. You can go through the painstaking effort of three to five times a week having counter conditioning and desensitization exercises that you're doing for five minutes or 10 minutes each day. And you know, you can do that for three to four months and you will probably have dogs that are gonna be much more comfortable being in closer proximity with each other, eating. Now you may never get them face-to-face eating because there might be limitations. Okay, this is behavior, this is not like programming a computer. Okay, but how are you gonna deal with food aggression if you wa if you don't wanna manage it, which I think is the easiest thing to do, but if you don't wanna manage it, well you gotta start by presenting the dogs, eating at a distance that's comfortable to them. And you need to do that for quite a while. And nothing bad can happen because if something bad happens, one of the dogs shows aggression, then you're just conditioning what you don't want and they're rehearsing the behaviors you don't want. So very gradually and systematically, very slowly, you bring them together closer and closer and closer and closer and closer gradually slowly. But they've gotta be having good experiences along the way. Now I'm also going to, for me, do some differential reinforcement. I'm gonna teach the dog to go to place, you know, one of these elevated dog cots. I love them , love them . I'm gonna teach him to go to place. Go to that elevated dog co and stay there. And I'm gonna be doing some proactive preventative work previously on teaching a very strong implied stay on that , uh, dog cot that the command is placed place means. Go to your cot , stay there. I don't care what's going on, you need to stay there and I'm gonna feed them on their place because here's the thing, they can't be committed to staying on place and doing that and also go after the other dog. You gotta give up one behavior for the other. You can't do both. So that's another layer besides just, you know, having them, their paws on the floor while they're eating at a distance. And little by little bringing 'em together, I like to put 'em on those dog cots and feed 'em there and bring 'em closer and closer and closer and closer. Okay ? Another layer of protection by doing that. But it's counter conditioning, it's desensitization. That's episode 81. Go to the Pet Talk today podcast, get that hour and 35 minutes of counter conditioning and desensitization education so you can learn how to do that. I've talked a lot about it today, so hopefully you've been listening because it is the same just about for every fear, phobia, anxiety, reactivity, aggression that's out there. And we've talked a lot about that today. But yeah, episode 81 Pet Talk Today podcast. And while you're checking out the podcast, please give us a five star review that helps our podcast rank higher. And Apple Podcast is where we need to rank higher. Um, so if you go to Apple Podcasts and you like what we're doing, please give us a five-star review. Also , um, next week, don't forget, we've got , uh, Stephanie Cohen. We're gonna be talking about the fear of dogs. And Stephanie's gonna be talking , um, about her book that she wrote on how to help people, how to help children that are afraid of dogs. That's next week Saturday. Please make sure that you tell everybody about that. Um, if you have asked questions and you've typed them out and I have not been able to answer your questions, I apologize. I appreciate everybody being here. We're just about out of time. Um, again, if you're just joining me, I'm Will Bandura . I'm certified professional dog trainer. I'm also a certified , uh, behavior consultant for dogs. Um, I deal with fears , phobias, aggression, anxiety. I also deal with nuisance behaviors as well. Um , but my specialty is the more severe behaviors. Um , if you need professional help, you can seek me out by going to dog behaviorist.com. Also, you can get a lot of great information by going to dog behaviorist.com and checking out the articles that I have written. There's a lot of great articles there for you to go through and they'll help you a lot. And then, like I said, you can go to the Pet Talk Today podcast. Um, there's, gosh, I don't know, about 85, 86 episodes there you can go through. Um, and also every episode that we did on Facebook, it's still on this page. All you've gotta do is scroll down, scroll down and you can watch episode after episode after episode after episode. Let me see if I've got one more question that I can answer. Um, somebody put behaviorist.com and that is not the website. You've got a space between dog and behaviorist.com. Make sure when you go there it's dog behaviorist.com. No spaces, you're looking at a behaviorist that deals with human stuff. Um, Kat , I appreciate you posting that. Maybe you can make a change for that. Um, what can we do with the coonhound who escapes any chance he gets runs away from us when we try to get him? I know he's , uh, compelled to follow his nose. Well, the first thing you can do is have a leash on the dog or have a line on the dog and make sure that you know the dog. Um, can't run away management. First thing you do is manage. Then the second thing you need to do is that places the dog escapes, you need to do some boundary training. Okay ? And that's a lot like place training. If anybody's done place training, kept your dog on a bed or a dog caught and you did any distraction work and kept the dog back on place, same thing for boundary work. Okay ? As your dog goes to cross the boundary, you don't want just move into the dog with your body and then try to coax the dog again. And when the dog doesn't take the bait, give a high value food reward mark and reward if you're using a marker system, because I'm a big believer in marker training. And if you don't know what markers are, go to episode 80 of the Pet Talk Today podcast cuz you need to be using markers in training for your dogs to truly understand , uh, what's going on. Um, but yeah, Don , that's a , that you know what Dawn , that's a great topic. I'm gonna write an article on that, Dawn . So I want you to come back to the dog behaviorist.com website dog behaviorist.com. Not do not behaviorist.com. Come back, Dawn , I'm gonna have an article up there shortly , um, about that because that is a great, great topic. Dogs escaping and then not wanting to come home. Um, yeah, for Sally , 38 to 40 pounds, you could do calm dogs. You're gonna need to give , uh, basically three or four tablets twice a day. So you're probably gonna need two bottles a month for that until , um, let's see, one more question. Can we get another quick one in here? Uh , let's see.

Speaker 3 59:38

Uh ,

Speaker 2 59:40

Okay, let's see. Where are you ? I need, I need a new question. One quick one. I'm going through trying to find quick ones. Uh , all right . Electronic fences. Keep my dog in the yard. Yeah, you know, I understand sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. I'm not a big fan of electric fences because , um, I think there's other ways to teach the boundary , um, without having to use Aversives. Um, with that, let's see here. Anyone in this feed know of coverings to slip the front legs to keep urine from staining his front legs. That's an interesting

Speaker 3 1:00:24

Question.

Speaker 2 1:00:28

And then somebody, Kat , you put dog behaviors.com. That's not dog behaviorist.com.

Speaker 3 1:00:35

Okay.

Speaker 2 1:00:37

All right , well, it doesn't look like I'm looking through the questions. I'm not seeing any new ones. So listen, thank you everybody for being here. Let's get the , uh, let's get that music going because that means we are just about out of time, which you already know. Anyway, I want to thank everybody for your questions. Thank you for being here. Thank you for your support. Thank you for your reviews on Apple Podcast. I will see you next week. Don't forget to train your dogs.

Speaker 4 1:01:08

That's all folks.

Speaker 2 1:01:12

Have a great weekend, everybody. We're outta here.